The Feminine Mistake
I’ve not yet read the new feminist manifesto, The Feminine Mistake
t imagine a workplace that changes to meet the needs of both the genders upon which it relies for labour.”
“Family law courts, working conditions, and employment discrimination are all untouchable. They and their inequities are facts of life. It is you, lady who will need to adapt to survive,” writes Blue Milk.
“Regardless of the book’s polarising nature I became convinced that all mothers should spend some time in self-reflection considering their contingency plans. What if they had to do it all alone, what would they do and how would they do it? Even if those plans are ridiculously optimistic it would pay to consider what they might be,” Blue Milk continued.
From reading Blue Milk’s review I wonder as well, As mothers and women - who claim stay-home, work part-time, work freelance and contract, or work-at-home status, or even take time off during the children’s early years - are we making an educated choice with a full understanding of its consequences?
Are we understanding the math? Or are we ignoring the math?
Do we realize that while we make our choice in the best interest of the whole family - it is we, alone, who takes the massive financial risk? If we realize it why are we passively accepting it?
If we were sane about it wouldn’t we be taking aggressive action to lower our risk while championing our stay-at-home status through political action groups like Momsrising?
In a society where there is a 50% divorce rate and women we know are retiring in abject poverty due to divorce after 25-30 year marriages, long after the children have moved on with their own lives, it is a valid question to ask “Have we gone mad? Where is our sense of self-preservation? Have we overly romanticized self-sacrifice to the detriment of ourselves and our daughters?
I’m going to read this book. I’d love for some others to pick up a copy and join me in a lively debate about it’s contents. Blue Milk ’s insightful review is a very good start. It will give you a taste of how thorough Bennett’s logic is.
Tags: , blog fabulous, blue milk, empowering women, empowering-girls, feminist mommy, financial risk, leslie bennetts, mommy-wars, opting out of corporate world, so sioux me, Stay-At-Home-Mom, the feminine mistake, tracee sioux, work at home momRelated Stories
POSTED IN: Fabulous Book Club, Fabulous Culture, Fabulous Mars & Venus, Fabulous Mothering, Fabulous Politics
62 opinions for The Feminine Mistake
jen
Mar 24, 2008 at 9:54 am
I did the math, but no amount of money is worth me handing my kids over to someone else to raise. Our family dynamic is WAY better with me home VS both of us working full time. I feel good about my choices. Most duel income families I know are in are worse shape than we are financially, an often have serious marital problems.
With me home I am able to attend to everyone’s needs including my own. It’s great for us, but we also have different thoughts on what success is. I am content living a modest lifestyle, driving paid for vehicles, etc…
This is my world view from MY life. I’m not saying all families are the same by any stretch. I’m sure it can (and does) work for some, but it takes balance that I do not posses or care to seek out in this season of my life.
I’m so thankful I have that choice. So, damned thankful.
Ashley
Mar 24, 2008 at 11:42 am
I don’t like the term ‘passively accepting it’..I like ‘enthusiastically choosing’ to invest something more precious than money into the most sound investment there is: your family.
Also, I believe today it is possible to plan and to preserve one’s financial stake while staying at home - the two are not related in my opinion.
Tracee
Mar 24, 2008 at 1:29 pm
Yeah, she talks about that kind of math Jen.
She says it’s short term/short-sighted math. Because she says economic stability is not about your current bills.
It’s the kind of math where after 15 years the husband’s income and income potential has exponentially increased while your own marketability had exponentially decreased. It’s the kind of math where if you’ve only been married to him for 9 years and not 10 you don’t get his social security income credits if he leaves you. It’s the kind of math where his 401 K gets more attention than your personal IRA.
She’s talking about a much more complex math.
She’s talking about the reality of two of my aunts who are in their 50s and 60s. Divorced after 25-30 year marriages and they work like dogs to try to pay their current bills. Their ex-husbands aren’t financially strapped at all. During the 30 year marriage they used their wifely support to build stable careers and become ever more economically viable and their lifestyle hasn’t changed a bit.
Divorce courts generally don’t give alimony anymore is one of her arguments.
Tracee
Mar 24, 2008 at 1:39 pm
Ashley, I don’t see a lot of mom’s vigorously attempting to narrow the economic gap of risk in order to enthusiastically choose the SAHM thing.
I see a lot of acceptance that moms are making huge sacrifices. Even making that a romantic notion. I see a lot of denial too about the risks we’re taking by being economically dependent.
Statistically, whether a woman is financially dependent and stays at home are very much related.
Staying at home is very important to me, obviously or I wouldn’t be doing it.
But, it’s a completely one-sided financial risk should the marriage end in divorce. And MOM is the one that carries the burden.
I think that’s wrong and we should do everything we can to change that.
I too think there are ways to shrink the amount of risk for moms without all of us going to work - but I don’t see a lot of moms pushing for as much change as I would like.
Whether you agree with her final analysis - which is that all moms should go to work - and frankly, I HATE that idea - she has a lot of very valid points about why we should stop being so passive and sacrificial about our own economic welfare.
Perhaps, if enough women - even the stay-at-home kind - read it, it will force us take more action to ensure our own economic independence. I hope so.
jen
Mar 24, 2008 at 4:20 pm
No, I’m not that narrow minded. I’m talking about the BIG mathematic equation. I get it…really. But my life is far from over and I AM the head CFO in our home. I’m willing to “sacrifice” so that I can raise my kids myself, and take care of my families needs myself. To me it would be a far greater sacrifice to bear my children that I love so dearly, and ditch them for my career. You can’t have both. Does this woman even have children?
Tarah
Mar 24, 2008 at 5:06 pm
I believe she has two children..she also seems to have a lot of critics..I don’t know if it’s so much what she is saying (she does make good points) but HOW she comes across saying it..just by the few things I have read about her.
Violet
Mar 24, 2008 at 6:57 pm
“It would be a far greater sacrifice to bear my children that I love so dearly, and ditch them for my career. You can’t have both.”
I think this is the first myth women have to get over. Men have both. So do many women who don’t have the option of staying home or who choose to pursue professional interests simply because they want to. They also love their children dearly.
I think we have an almost pathological idea that the best moms are ones who give up everything– their interests, money, freedom and security – for their children. The risks are not just financial. I see women who have no identity after their children grow up and no longer need them.
I’m not advocating every woman go out and get a 9-5 anytime soon. But I think we all need to get honest about the risks, and figure out how to mitigate our losses from the three Ds - death, disability or divorce. Life insurance on the breadwinner is important. So is keeping the pot boiling on your own personal interests and career options.
I speak of myself also. I’ve taken time off to be the CFO of the house without really looking at how it could impact my future. I’ve thrown myself behind my husband’s goals at the expense of my own. I’ve spent a great deal of time waiting to be a mother instead of finishing college and other career goals.
I said this on Blue Milk’s site, but I also think it is a mistake to let women have all the hands-on joy of being a parent. Part of what is wrong with the picture is on the other side too. I know many fathers who would like more bonding time with the little ones too, but get cast in the role of the breadwinner for life, always at work. Everyone needs more flexibility.
Ultimately, the workplace, society and family structure needs to change. But I don’t think it will as long as women continue to be the sacrificial lambs in the name of being good mothers and wives.
Rebecca
Mar 24, 2008 at 8:54 pm
I think community property laws (as in texas) were designed initially to protect women such as your aunts Tracee. That any income from whatever source earned during the marriage doesn’t belong to the husband, it belongs to the marital community, to be equitably divided. Where this doesn’t help is where there is no community estate, there’s just community debt.
Anyway. I’m pregnant with my first and I have every intention of going back to work, even tho from a financial standpoint I don’t have to. I have to from a different standpoint tho. I certainly don’t view it as “ditching my child”. I’m sure lots of people would think I’m horribly selfish but other people’s judgments don’t concern me. We are a horribly judgmental society, and people are going to criticize from both sides of the debate no matter what I do.
Tracee
Mar 25, 2008 at 5:52 am
She does have children - she has two AND she’s had a successful career.
She says it’s a complete societal myth that we have to choose between being good mothers and our careers.
She says tons of women have both and do both - and she also points out that MEN take it for granted that they can have both - it’s only women who believe in the myth of either/or.
Tracee
Mar 25, 2008 at 6:04 am
Well here’s how community property worked for them -
But my one aunt had always sacrificed her schooling so he could pursue his. She would work as a waitress while he pursued a new certificate, etc. He would work overtime and no one would be with the kids so she would drop out of school.
Post divorce he’s got a great career she made a lot of sacrifices for. She’s 50 something and still trying to finish school in abject poverty.
My other aunt got the house that needed a lot of repair work. She can barely pay the property taxes on it - same thing. She took 15 years off to raise the kids so he could focus on his career and work a lot of overtime. She eventually went back to work but didn’t have the seniority he had. He had a 15-20 year head start.
When they split the 401K he still had a high enough income from his regular job that he could afford to leave it there. She couldn’t. He’s still living on the accrued interest with his new wife and they have a great lifestyle - the result of my aunt’s lifetime of sacrifices and hard work for her family. My aunt often works 3 jobs just to survive.
Tracee
Mar 25, 2008 at 6:11 am
One of the most interesting issues she brings up is whether we’re really “opting out.” Blue Milk brought up this passage where she said - if your husband is working 60-80 hours a week to pursue his ambitions that leaves you with complete responsibility over the parenting and therefore practically unable to pursue your own ambition.
This is not “opting out” this, says the author, “is getting pushed out.”
It’s painful to hear, but I think she’s right in a lot of ways. I think my aunt did get pushed out of her own dream. I have been at risk of being pushed out of my own dream.
The biggest and most painful battleground of feminism is in our own homes. We make a lot of foolish sacrifices to keep the peace.
Ashley
Mar 25, 2008 at 6:15 am
The whole thing strikes me as an attempt to simplify one’s decision to stay at home into an economical equation. Like one big mistake women are ignorantly making - but I don’t see it that way. I can see how her opinions easily apply to the house wife of the 1950’s, but today, women know better - they know what they’re getting into - they know what they’re giving up. I mean it’s 2008, we have financial gurus coming out of the woodwork telling us how to save and plan and safeguard ourselves from financial disaster.. Most of the SAHM’s that I know have planned and adjusted their finances specifically so that they could stay home. They weren’t roped into it ignorant to the fact that their career would be put on hold. And they still made the financial sacrifices to stay home. I respect that - I don’t feel sorry for them.
All I’m saying is for most, it’s a conscious choice, not an ignorant mistake.
Also, I don’t think the roles of father/mother can or should be reversed, ,or evened out. Yes, I would love for my husband to feel more responsible sometimes, but I cherish my role as ‘mother.’ At it’s core motherhood IS more sacrificial - we carry them in our bodies for 9 long months, we sacrifice perky boobs and tight bellies and everything else that comes with pregnancy/delivery/nursing.. In my opinion that lifts up our gender as special, ordained, whatever you want to call it. I never took so much pride in being a woman until I became a mother - I never fully appreciated it until then. I spent my younger life sort of angry that I had to be the ‘weaker sex’ and be left out of things in a sense - but when I became a mother, it was like I realized, a woman’s role is the most important on earth - whether we realize and appreciate it or not. And it makes me mad for people to reduce that role - like men have been reducing it for years and years.
But, I do agree with some of the points Tracee and Violet have made here and in the past about society’s views of working mom/vs SAHM need to change. There does need to be some flexibility in the workplace. I don’t believe we should have to choose between career and children. But if some women HAVE chosen to do all or nothing one way or another - that’s not some big stupid mistake she’s making in my opinion. Things aren’t changed yet, most workplaces arent’ flexible and friendlly and won’t let you work from home..
Ashley
Mar 25, 2008 at 6:36 am
Terah - maybe you’re right. Maybe it’s the way she’s saying it that’s rubbing me the wrong way.
Tarah
Mar 25, 2008 at 6:41 am
I went to college and all of that…but I choose to stay home. Then when my kids were old to tend to a lot of their own needs, we brought 2 more little ones into our home (adoption). People thougth we were nuts, that I gave up “my” time..and yes sometimes I wish I had a career because that is how a lot of people measure a woman’s self worth…but when I see their faces smile and laugh or my littlest one this morning saying “you want to play a game with me?” and I am able to be here TO play it with him, I thank God every day they are in my life.
Of course I also know about finances..where our money is, (actaully,I do all the finances in our home),what accounts..how much, making sure both our names are on everythign, have a will..etc., what we owe, what we have in retirement, and such. To each his own I say. I just think we should feel good about our own personal choices and make sure other women, no matter what theirs are, feel good about theirs too.
Tracee
Mar 25, 2008 at 7:10 am
Romanticizing our sacrifices as “worth it” is the opposite of demanding our value be recognized.
The disagreement I have with the author is this: She is right when she says we place no value in the stay-at-home mother.
Her “solution” is to abandon the whole thing to pursue the patriarchal corporate structure therefore forcing our husbands to participate equally in family life.
I have a different idea. I think her idea further reduces motherhood in society’s eyes.
Mothers should demand respect. In this country we equate respect in monetary value - so we should minimize the risk for moms with monetary tax and employment policy.
We give tax breaks to those we respect. Why don’t we get tax breaks for being SAHMs?
We should have equal access to health coverage - reducing our economic dependence on our husband’s work benefits.
We should definately be saving, investing and insuring against risk. Kudos Tarah.
We should be equally involved in the family finances - Kudos Jen.
We should value motherhood enough to allow mothers a reasonable maternity leave. Countries that value motherhood have 2 year maternity leave because they feel whatever inconvenience is caused by leaving the door open to mothers is worth it because the job they do while away is VITAL to society.
We should provide much more incentive for flexible work environments like telecommuting and 30 hour work weeks to allow for family time - because societies that really value families provide for that.
In other words - I think Bennett’s is right about the value of mothers in this society and the risks we are taking.
And we should be Pissed that we are so little valued. We should demand more respect and recognition for our inherent value as mothers.
Romanticizing our sacrifices as “worth it” is the opposite of demanding our value be recognized.
Accepting our sacrifices is a crucial mistake that we have every power to change.
Violet
Mar 25, 2008 at 11:32 am
Ashley, I get what you are saying, but I have to say it smacks of sexism to say that women are more deserving of spending time with their children simply because of their gender. We’d be up in arms if a man said he was superior because of his testosterone.
I always think it is interesting that women stay home because they think it is too hard to balance work and parenthood, but they think it is perfectly okay for their husband to work 60 hours a week and be a father.
Look at it this way. If your husband said, I want to stay home for the next 20 years, and I want you to work 60 hours a week to support that. Would you want to do it? I wouldn’t. In fact, I’d be pretty angry to get stuck with that side of it. i see men every day who are burned out from carrying the load alone.
I don’t agree that every mother needs to go back to work full time. Different things work for different people and so many factors go into those kinds of decisions - how many kids, what kind of job, finances, etc. But I don’t entirely understand why someone with a couple of kids has to become dependent on her husband for the rest of her life either.
I have two aunts who became young widows with children when their breadwinner died. I have friends who are stuck in bad marriages because they have no exit plan, others who have left to live in abject poverty. When I volunteered at a homeless shelter, I was shocked at the number of old women who are in that system.
Tarah
Mar 25, 2008 at 12:08 pm
Violet,
I don’t know if you were talking about me (and if not sorry!) but I do not stay home because I think it’s too hard to balance it with work. I stay home because I want to be here for my kids. I also, though, know enough about our finances to know I would not be out in the street if something happens. Also my husband himself makes it a priority not work 60 hours a week so he can share in the parenting. I do know we are lucky that way, and that is not options for everyone.
Tarah
Mar 25, 2008 at 12:12 pm
not TO work…man..I need to watch my typing today.
Rebecca
Mar 25, 2008 at 12:21 pm
Tracee,
I don’t know if your aunts lived in a community property state. And no, it does not not protect women. It was just designed to, I think.
I agree with absolutely everything you said, Violet! Fathers are just as much parents as mothers are, regardless of the fact that they don’t carry around the fetus. If my husband and I could switch off on doing that, I’d be happy. :)
Tracee
Mar 25, 2008 at 12:34 pm
I don’t think what Ashley said smacks of sexism.
I think she’s being proprietary over her value in the role she strongly identifies with. She doesn’t want her role as “mother” reduced. And frankly, in a million ways, financial and otherwise in our culture, the role of mother and of women in general gets reduced and minimized. She wants her role to be acknowledged as “irreplacible.” She did make sacrifices that men can not biologically make. Mothers do make sacrifices that fathers do not make for their children - even if both work. She just wants that acknowledged.
That said, I think Violet is right in that valuing the role of fathers does not reduce the role of mothers. In fact, I think the opposite is true. If we value fathers and mothers we value families - which will result in better economic policy and less financial dependence for women. (all the economic policy I mentioned before should, of course, be available for both parents).
Ashley
Mar 25, 2008 at 12:59 pm
Okay, all the stories of the relatives or friends or whatever that were broke after a divorce: that’s sad and not very fair..but isn’t that basically a lack of planning? Couldn’t a lack of planning and saving and nest-egging lead to financial disaster no matter what the situation? Rebecca - you’re right about the community property states.
I hope that didn’t sound cold above. I guess I just can’t fathom an adult existence with no concept or control over the money..I can’t imagine not making sure things were in my name or making sure there was money holed up somewhere.. I don’t know if that’s an asset or flaw to my character - but I couldn’t give up that much control to my spouse..
Rebecca
Mar 25, 2008 at 1:27 pm
Absolutely it’s a lack of planning, Ashley. I think Suze Orman talks about something like what you’re discussing… that married women need to have some control over the finances and have some individual savings, otherwise they’re in a dangerously dependent situation. I’ve never read her book though so I’m not sure.
Ashley
Mar 25, 2008 at 1:48 pm
Violet - I do want my husband and I to be equal in terms of respect and opportunity and rights..but I don’t think ‘equal’ means ‘the same’. Here’s what I mean: a while back on SoSouix me Tracee talked about an all girls and an all boys school. The beauty in these schools was that they could cater to the uniqueness of each gender. I think maybe sometimes in our quest to be acknowledged as ‘equal’ we minimize our god-given unique qualities. God made me a woman. I’m glad about that - I certainly don’t think it should sentence me to a life of someone else’s choosing, but I sure am glad I have the option of having children and family and choosing to work or not to work. Just because I take pride and joy in my role, doesn’t mean I don’t place value in my husband’s role as father, breadwinner, whatever.
For the record, right now I am working too to keep him from having to take a job that will carry him out of town for weeks at a time. And for the record, even though this is sometimes easier emotionally, I miss staying at home with my kids. I respect women who do. I think most women are just trying desperately to find the balance and choice that works for us and our family and here comes this lady telling the SAHMs that they’re making a dire mistake. It just pisses me off really. Aren’t we already obsessed with money and material possesion? I believe we have put money and things too high on our priority list. And then here she comes telling us we aren’t quite preoccupied enough with it..
Tarah
Mar 25, 2008 at 3:11 pm
Ashley,
I was just going to make that very same point you just did!
About being obsessed with money and material possession and that being too high on our priority list….
Violet
Mar 25, 2008 at 3:40 pm
I am not against staying home with children, and I applaud those who make it work. I always fully intended to stay home with my children for the first 5 years if I could. But I think some SAHMs go into it with the best case scenario in their heads and are woefully unprepared when it goes off track. That’s all I am saying, be prepared.
One of my aunts whose husband died in in a car accident and left her with 4 small children? They were prepared and had life insurance on him which meant she was able to stay in her house. The other, who at least only had one child, was not so lucky. Both ended up back in the workforce eventually though.
Secondly, I do mean what I say about fathers. They deserve to be considered in these equations also. Things have changed for both genders over the last 50 years, and men have had to adapt their “proprietary” role too. We need to stop looking at these things as mommy issues and start looking at them as family issues.
I don’t like the stereotype that women who work are just obsessed with money and material possessions over the love of their children.
Some women work for personal fulfillment or security or health benefits or a host of other reasons. Obviously, if your job is check out person at the grocery store, you are a lot less invested in it than the woman who has built up a successful and fulfilling law career.
Why should she have to feel that the only way for her to be a good mother is to give all that up?
Tracee
Mar 25, 2008 at 4:01 pm
Money isn’t at the bottom of the list of things that are important.
Seems men understand the necessity of it. Women, not so much. But perhaps that’s our flaw and not theirs?
I also notice those women’s children - for whom they sacrificed - aren’t taking care of them.
Divorce doesn’t happen to 2% of women. It happens to 50% of women.
If nothing else I hope Bennett’s book makes mothers think about their precarious economic dependence.
I suspect we all think the sacrifice is worth it - if the marriage stays together and our risky bet pays off.
But, if it dissolves I wonder how many of us might change our minds about how “worth it” it really was.
By the way - there’s 6 days left to sign up for Suze Orman’s Save Yourself Account with TD Ameritrade - she’ll give you a free $100 if you save only $50 for one year. March 31 is the deadline.
Violet
Mar 25, 2008 at 4:13 pm
For another real life example, look no further than Silda Spitzer.
http://www.slate.com/id/2186452/
jen
Mar 25, 2008 at 4:21 pm
“the best moms are ones who give up everything– their interests, money, freedom and security – for their children.”
This does not resemble my life AT ALL. Yes, there are sacrifices I make but my husband makes them as well. It’s a two way street.
“I have two aunts who became young widows with children when their breadwinner died. I have friends who are stuck in bad marriages because they have no exit plan, others who have left to live in abject poverty. When I volunteered at a homeless shelter, I was shocked at the number of old women who are in that system.”
That is very sad, and I have seen it happen in my own family. This is exactly why I have taken many precautions to protect myself and my kids from disaster such as a death or divorce. I am very in charge of my own financial future even though I do not currently draw a pay check.
When I say “ditch” my kids I speak from experience. I went right back to work when my first son was born. He took his first steps for someone else, and began calling his caregiver “mama.” It was heartbreaking. My marriage suffered as well. It was fine for both of us to work before children, but when you add a baby in the mix it is much harder to maintain that lifestyle.
If you work 9-5, get home around 6ish, and your kids go to bed at 8 you are spending two hours a day or less with your children. Someone else gets them for the best part of the day, and you get them when they are hungry and tired. If you decide to have kids someone will have to sacrifice something. Mom will sacrifice career if she stays home or Vs versa if Dad chooses to stay. Or, if both parents work you both sacrifice memories and precious time with your child you can never get back. No amount of subsidized daycare can solve that problem.
“We should have equal access to health coverage - reducing our economic dependence on our husband’s work benefits.”
Agreed.
“We should definately be saving, investing and insuring against risk. Kudos Tarah.”
So, true. Planning is key. If you don’t have a plan at all you are setting yourself up for disaster. Hoping your husband won’t up and leave you is not a plan.
Tracee
Mar 25, 2008 at 5:47 pm
It does resemble your life at all.
If you divorce, your husband has a great career and a nice income that you have made sacrifices for.
At best you’re going back to college. At worst you’re back to waiting tables.
Because all the familial resources - like many, many families (including my own) - have been going to making the primary breadwinner win more bread. Which is best for the family in the immediate term. But, maybe not the best for Mommy in the long term.
“Taking time off” when the children are young and needy doesn’t have to mean and shouldn’t mean we permanently quit pursuing a career, Bennett says. Get back in, she advises.
I’m not judging any woman’s choices. I’m as economically dependent as anyone here - but, I can see that maybe I haven’t been as realistic as I should be about my economic security.
I think maybe this book is kicking my self-preservation instinct in. Probably also because my youngest child is getting older and I’m seeing my need to be at home lessen to some degree.
Tracee
Mar 25, 2008 at 6:22 pm
solomother just posted about downsizing yet again post divorce and selling her belongings in order to survive.
http://www.solomother.com/ghosts-land-mines-and-ancient-history-memories-of-a-breakup/
Tarah
Mar 25, 2008 at 7:31 pm
Violet,
No one said that woman who work are obsessed with money and material things OVER their children..that is not what I said. I did not mean that and I don’t believe that is what Ashley meant (even though I would never speak for you Ashley ,so if im wrong ..sorry Ashley!)
What I meant was that yes of course we need money and material things (house, car, furniture) but we do not need yachts, or 100,000 dollar cars or mansions if it means working 60 or more hours a week and missing our kid’s childhoods. And yes some people do put those things on their lists as “got to have” items..I am not one of them.
Tarah
Mar 25, 2008 at 7:36 pm
I agree about dads..kids need their dads big time…but if a dad works 60 or more hours a week..that is not the mom’s fault..the dad is old enough to say (to his boss, himself if self employed, or his wife) “No, I’m spending more time with my kids.”
sorry..these last two comments sounded kinda grouchy. ahahha
jen
Mar 25, 2008 at 7:51 pm
Well, I am working Suze’s save yourself plan. I have not given up my own interests, and if anything am able to pursue them more now than when I was working because my husband is making sacrifices for me to be able to do so. He has the harder job, but my husband has a huge provider mentality. I am better off financially now than I ever have been in my life, and yes if Aaron left me right this moment he would,in many respects, recover much easier than I. But, my last child will start school next year and I will be back in the workforce very soon. It was worth it for me to invest (not sacrifice) that season of my life in my children. It enriched me in ways a career never could have. Fully worth six years to me. I just don’t think spreading family resources to further both of our careers would have worked well for us. The stress of both of us working, maintaining a household, having a child in daycare simply would have outweighed the benefits. It honestly would not have been worth the extra income (or lack there of if I had finished school.)
There are pros and cons to both sides, but making more money sooner rather than later was not my main motivation for the choices I made. Divorce sucks no matter your income. I would rather have less money now, but have peace in our home and marriage than divorced with a career. It was, for us, much harder road when we both worked outside of the home.
Tarah
Mar 25, 2008 at 7:58 pm
Divorce sucks no matter your income…You got that right, jen..
Aaron
Mar 25, 2008 at 8:31 pm
Yikes! Ladies, 34 comments? Ok, I have to chime in on this equality issue (me being a guy and all), my take is 100% what this guy says:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBGIQ7ZuuiU
Sorry, but that’s what I think. Take it or leave it.
-A
Violet
Mar 25, 2008 at 9:26 pm
I hope I don’t sound grouchy either, because I really like hearing different points of view, and they are all valid and give me something to think about.
I know what you are saying, Tarah, our society sometimes seem hung up on material items to the exclusion of precious things that do not have a financial value. But some moms really need to work or want to work, and they are often great moms too.
My dad worked 40-60 hours a week - because he had to. My family was working class and he was supporting my SAH mom and six children. Ouch. But I agree that other people have more options that they don’t exercise.
I would love to be able to split the breadwinner role in half, but I know that isn’t practical for most of us. The structure of health insurance and other workplace benefits makes it nearly impossible. I just want to see things change for everyone. Europeans get tons of time off, universal health care and pro-mommy policies that I wish the US would adopt.
Violet
Mar 25, 2008 at 9:52 pm
Jen , it sounds like you have made a lot of smart choices about staying home, like nurturing personal interests, saving money and planning on going back to work later on. Good for you.
These are such complicated issues. Another side is that women who work still do the lion’s share of the housework. They may work all day then come home to their second shift. They may be better off from a financial standpoint, but they are working themselves to death. This is one reason I stayed home for a while.
So many things need to change. I’m glad we are talking about it.
Tracee
Mar 26, 2008 at 5:43 am
I’m glad we’re talking about it too. When I see women who gave up everything and then lose everything just because they lose a man it’s tragic.
Who invited the Man Jennifer?
Tracee
Mar 26, 2008 at 5:48 am
I just watched Aaron’s video. Now I can’t get the smile off my face.
Osh. Jenn got one of the good ones.
Tracee
Mar 26, 2008 at 5:50 am
I hear what you’re saying Jen. I wouldn’t give the the stay-at-home years either.
I wanted them. I do think it matters who changes them, wipes their noses, puts them down for a nap, teaches them, talks to them and even ignores them.
My soul wanted/needed this uniquely maternal experience. I’ve fought pretty hard not to give it up.
But I still want the tax credit, the health insurance and the better employment policy - for when I go back.
Tarah
Mar 26, 2008 at 6:05 am
Aaron,
Ok..I’m speechless on that one..
Ashley
Mar 26, 2008 at 6:08 am
I’m taking a lot from this discussion too. And I didn’t mean to come across as “money doesn’t matter” all I was saying is that our society seems to be obcessed with it..and I think in many ways this obcession has crowded out our focus on family. Of course I’m not saying that I think working mothers are worse in some way - I work now..but I guess what I’m saying is I highly respect those women (and men) who make the choice to live w/ out the ‘cribs’ house and the nice car to devote a few years to their family.. I don’t think that time will be a regret.. On the other hand I have encountered many, many women who look back and resent the hell out of having to work while their children were little due to bills and debt and so forth. I think if done right one parent staying at home can be such a rewarding thing with long term benefits that surpass the promotion you would have gotten in that 4 year span.
Also, my other point was that I’m embracing my role as ‘mom’ I love it.. I don’t want to trade it w/ my husband - he loves his role. I’m okay with it being defined as long as I had a say in the definition.
Also, I completely agree with the concept of better pto time for young moms, universal health care, etc. etc. These are steps other societies are taking to promote healthy families that stay together.. Americans are sick when it comes to money and priorities - we are drowning in debt, and divorcing over finances and have no plan B for the most part in our marriage plans, our retirement plans, and our emergency plans WE HAVE NO PLANS PERIOD! The whole reason I’m having to work now is that we had no plan b for financial disaster.. My goal is to become secure so that we become financially free together - if we get a divorce we will be financially free apart. I guess I just don’t like the tone of this advice - it seems to be demeaning to the efforts of parents devoting their lives (for now) to their family. I like the thought of us finding ways to better respect and take care of that effort rather than slam them and tell them it’s stupid..
Ashley
Mar 26, 2008 at 6:11 am
Ok, our fortiguard do dad isn’t letting me watch the video - can someone summarize? My curiosity is eating me alive!!!!!!!
Tarah
Mar 26, 2008 at 7:08 am
Ashley,
It’s Rick Astley..the video of him singing “Never Gonna Give you Up”
Ashley
Mar 26, 2008 at 7:13 am
hmm..
jen
Mar 26, 2008 at 8:03 am
It’s called “rick rolling” (goggle it) and it’s getting tired in our house. Hahaha.
Do you people see what I have to live with? Do you?
Sorry for the hijacking :)
I don’t mean to sound like a judgemental jerk either. Every family dynamic works differently. To sum up what I’m trying to get across: I am extremely grateful for the privilage to be able to stay home with my kids. I know for many people this truly is NOT an option. Some families I know depend heavily on both incomes, and/or some depend on the wife’s job for health care benefits for the family. I have been the working mommy. I know how difficult that road is. I would love to see change that will bring families up instead of forcing them to go through a “poverty spell” should one parent stay home.
Violet
Mar 26, 2008 at 8:59 am
I’ve been humming that song all morning :)
Ashley
Mar 26, 2008 at 9:03 am
me too.
Ashley
Mar 26, 2008 at 9:06 am
me too Jen
Ashley
Mar 26, 2008 at 2:59 pm
I just looked up rickrolling - how funny! Sounds like something we would have done as teenagers.
SpoiledMom
Mar 27, 2008 at 7:35 am
After a four years of living together, my husband and I married in 93. We had a daughter in 94 and another in 96. He was adamant that I stay at home. I had a wonderful career I loved - nursing. So after long discussion, running the numbers and so on. I decided to become a SAHM in 94. In 98 my husband had back surgery and went wacko on the pain meds. In 99 he lost his wonderful job and took what he could find for a year. I also went back to work. He had depleted us completely, as I would find out standing in the grocery line one day. Depleted not only monetary but emotionally. That’s when I found out my husband had an addiction problem. At that moment “I” was broke. “I” had a mortgage. “I” had two car loans. “I” had two daughters to take care of. I was broken inside. Within a week of this devastating news I was back nursing and my girls in daycare (after being home with me for almost 5 years) I will never forget that first day back!! He and I tried to ride it out, he was clean for a while, mostly not. Fast forward October 2002. I got the call, he had ODd and passed away. I was scared out of my mind. Thankfully, I had my job and the girls were in school by this time. I had to make a decision a few months afterwards. Everything began to take a toll on me. I was in a house with too much room, too much mortgage and too many memories (painful) for me and two small kids. With the money the girls and I received from Survivor Benefits, some life insurance, and savings I had started, I decided to sell our home and downsize. I wanted to be back at home with the girls. I wanted to be there for them. I was able to do this and am still keeping it going. It takes careful planning but for right now it is worth it to me. My fear is when I retire, and its NOT that far away, the way time flies….I’m terrified about going back into the workplace. I am pretty sure I will have to re-enter at some point. I have health issues now that prevent me from doing so at this time. But it is certainly something that I think about quite a bit. Thankfully the kids and I have insurance plans, but nothing compared to what I would have if I had a “company plan”. Every woman needs to have a back up plan, just in case.
Tracee
Mar 27, 2008 at 8:01 am
Thank you so much for sharing that with us Spoiled Mom.
Ashley
Mar 27, 2008 at 8:03 am
Spoiled mom - my husband and I have been through something similar - mine is thankfully still alive though and has been recovering for the last year and a half. I don’t think people realize how much of an epidemic it is - or how quickly it leads to financial disaster.. I’m sorry for you and your girls - you’re in my prayers.
SpoiledMom
Mar 27, 2008 at 8:40 am
Thanks Ashley, I am so glad your husband is in recovery and remains. It really is an epidemic. It is equal opportunity, no matter race, gender, or economic status. And when it takes hold, it is vicious. You and yours are in my prayers as well.
Tracee: Thanks again!
Chrissy
Violet
Mar 27, 2008 at 9:59 am
Spoiled Mom - wow, you have been through a lot. I am really glad you had insurance, savings and your nursing degree to fall back on. Addiction is one of those things that can devastate a marriage and family. I hope things get better for you and your girls.
SpoiledMom
Mar 27, 2008 at 12:31 pm
Thanks Violet! In the beginning I had nothing. All I had was my degree at the time. I had been at home for 5 years, and he secretly went through our savings. Everything else came a lot later. Of course I had my insurance through work. But now I have to pay dearly for a family plan. We have learned that “things” do not make you happy. The savings was what I saved and some of the equity from the house sale. I remember coming home from work and after getting the girls home from after school care (another expense) and just eating together,that was the best thing in my day, and it still is. Sure, we still had our house, it was my decision to sell, but I was teetering very near the edge of losing it. I had to make hard decisions that would not effect not only me but the girls as well.
Through God, perseverance, and sheer determination, we have a home and each other.
Tracee
Mar 27, 2008 at 1:24 pm
I’ll be voting for you and all others like you in this election - in need of more affordable equal access to healthcare Chrissy.
SpoiledMom
Mar 27, 2008 at 2:09 pm
im so glad i found your blog, Tracee!! It’s Fabulous!! LOL
So are all the posters as well!
Yes!! All of us “Fabulous women” solidify to get out and vote and make a difference!
Tarah
Mar 27, 2008 at 5:27 pm
Spoiledmom,
I’ll keep you in my prayers..You should be SO proud of yourself. You’ve done good. You too Ashley, for what you’ve been through.
Tracee
Mar 28, 2008 at 6:26 am
I’m so glad my blog found you Spoiled Mom! Stick around - there’s lots more fun to be had.
Ashley
Mar 28, 2008 at 6:42 am
Thanks Tarah. It’s been worth it - we have a (halleluiah) normal,quiet life now. God can move mountains for a family if they want him to..
Elizabeth
Mar 30, 2008 at 1:02 pm
LMAO at the rickrolling.
Spoiled Mom, and Ashley, I hope things continue to look up for you and your family.
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