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50 opinions for Stop Abortion Vote Healthcare!

• Thrifty Karen
  Mar 12, 2008 at 10:37 am

  I agree that most abortions are used as a form of birth control. It seems many women are nieve and irresponsible for their actions. What I don’t understand though, is why women aren’t using their local health departments to obtain contraception. When I was married, in college, and had NO money, I used the local health department for my needs. If women aren’t utilizing the health department, it makes me wonder if they’ll use a health plan to get contraception. Just a thought.

  Now, let’s be CIVIL please with this discussion.

• Tracee
  Mar 12, 2008 at 10:54 am

  I am absolutely NOT saying women use abortion as birth control.

  I am saying women in poverty have abortions because they don’t have adequate access to birth control.

  Not only do they have the least access to health care, they also have the least access to contraceptive and reproductive education.

  I too sought contraception through places like Planned Parenthood - however, it is a bit intimidating when pro-lifers are picketing the place I’m going for the pill and a pap smear.

  Planned Parenthood is also very difficult to access from my current place of residence - about a 2 hrs away. (If I’m in poverty I haven’t much chance of getting there.)

  To my knowledge there is no free health department contraception offered.

• Tracee
  Mar 12, 2008 at 11:04 am

  Would they use it?

  There’s one sure way to find out: We could give them access to healthcare and education about pregnancy and std prevention and find out if they use it.

  It’s within our power this election.

• Ashley
  Mar 12, 2008 at 11:09 am

  I don’t know if it differs from state to state, but most local health clinics in Arkansas and Louisiana (in each county) offer these services free - but if you have no vehicle to get there - I don’t know what you would do..

  The question I would like to ask is this: What are the lower middle class women to do that are not insured.? There are many many of us (I just now became insured after a long two year window of no coverage of any kind). We make just a tad too much to qualify for free programs and not nearly enough to pay for good insurance..

• Ashley
  Mar 12, 2008 at 11:12 am

  I agree though that there will always be a small population of ‘girls’, mostly, who have not been directed to the right resources and who won’t use any program at all, but I believe we could be doing much, much more..maybe with the billions of dollars in federal money being thrown at the war..? hmm?

• Tracee
  Mar 12, 2008 at 11:15 am

  Good point Ashley. Equal access to healthcare is an issue that effects every woman.

  If you make too much to qualify for certain programs it doesn’t mean you make enough afford healthcare.

• Ashley
  Mar 12, 2008 at 11:28 am

  I work in a medical office - we have ‘good’ insurance. But it would cost me almost $400 a month to insure me, husband and two boys? None of us have any disablilities or ongoing health problems..
  That’s too much! And it’s not my employer’s fault - they don’t benefit from those high premiums. They choose health plans based on which companies actually PAY the bill that’s been charged - you’d be surprised at how many don’t.

  So as it is now, I’m only covering myself, the kids still (cross your fingers and pray Bush doesn’t mess it up) are covered by Chip and my husband is on his own..isn’t that awful? but it’s the truth.

  I haven’t had an exam period since I became covered because I hate to spend the money for the co-pays..

  Anyone who says something ain’t broke here is mistaken.

• Gayla McCord
  Mar 12, 2008 at 11:50 am

  I was on birth control when I became pregnant for the twins. I took it religiously - however, the doctor forgot to inform me about the whole contraceptive/antibiotic factor. Next thing I knew I was pregnant.

  Accidents happen. But I agree wholeheartedly on your position as to what would happen if Roe v Wade was overturned. I think those who want that to happen would be in for a very rude awakening.

  The thing they don’t realize is it will NEVER get overturned - no matter how they try. Republicans NEED it as a platform to make hefty promises they can’t possibly produce. Without that platform, what do they have?

• Tracee
  Mar 12, 2008 at 12:00 pm

  Without that platform most Christians would be Democrats because they believe in helping the poor and they believe in justice and equality.

  Without abortion all Republicans have is big business.

• Ashley
  Mar 12, 2008 at 12:02 pm

  Very true, and the average Christian is NOT about big business and shady deals.

• Jennifer
  Mar 12, 2008 at 12:15 pm

  A couple of Planned Parenthood marches - speech hours, etc that I’ve attended have been where attendees pledge money for each pro-lifer who shows up - because during a meeting it gets old to see the other side show up and shout negatives. We’d put up signs that said so too - but then all the money would go to making health care more accessible.

  I agree we need more Health Care $ - it’s tough as a freelancer. Back when I did social work I was 100% covered, but now I see that among my working friends, it’s rare to have full coverage through work.

  I am nervous about Roe v Wade getting overturned. Especially when there are states where teens can’t get to a clinic, because there is no clinic, and even if they could they need parental permission - which can be more dangerious than the procedure for some girls - to me, that makes abortion completely unaccessible for a specific group.

• Thrifty Karen
  Mar 12, 2008 at 12:20 pm

  I know some other people that got pregnant while on birth control b/c their doctor also forgot to tell them about the antibiotic deal.

  Republicans don’t just have the abortion topic. There’s also same sex marriage.

• Tracee
  Mar 12, 2008 at 12:31 pm

  Right. I forgot. Somebody’s gotta be against the gays.

  Uninsured and underinsured Christian Republicans should definately forgo healthcare to deal with the gays. It’s a good trade.

• Thrifty Karen
  Mar 12, 2008 at 12:41 pm

  I think a lot of this has come from us putting band-aids and quick fixes on things for so long. There are problems in America that need to be faced without a quick fix.

• Tracee
  Mar 12, 2008 at 12:56 pm

  True That.

• Ashley
  Mar 12, 2008 at 1:02 pm

  I agree Thrifty Karen, but I don’t know if the present state of healthcare is a quick fix situation - I’m pretty sure what’s going on right now was pretty systematically schemed up by some pretty greedy cruel people..Not someone’s half hazard attempt to fix something - this isn’t an oversight - it is intentionally set up this way. And it needs to be quickly fixed in my opinion.

• Thrifty Karen
  Mar 12, 2008 at 2:14 pm

  If women are having sex, getting pregnant, and then having an abortion because they can’t afford the child, then that would be having an abortion as a means of birth control.

  Abortions cost money, a lot more money than condoms.

  The health department provides care for those wishing to prevent pregnancy. There just seems to be more of an underlying issue here than healthcare.

• Thrifty Karen
  Mar 12, 2008 at 2:16 pm

  Tracee, I just read your comment. In NC, the health dept bases their care upon your income. When I was in married and in college, they included my husband’s income with mine and I was able to receive care for free. A few years ago I used the health dept again and I had to pay a percentage based upon my income.

• Thrifty Karen
  Mar 12, 2008 at 2:18 pm

  Sorry, I somehow got behind on comments. I signed up to get the email notifications, but I’m not sure what happened in the process.

• Tracee
  Mar 12, 2008 at 2:25 pm

  check spam.

  Good to know Karen, thanks for the info. I’ve never heard of such a program (perhaps it’s not advertised enough?)

• Gayla McCord
  Mar 12, 2008 at 2:41 pm

  This is probably one of my favorite ‘issues’ to discuss because it’s interesting to see how so many different people related to it.

  In the end, everyone’s own reality will determine their position.

  Ultimately, I think women NEED to have the choice rather then resorting to illegal methods and we all know that would happen.

  I had an experience where I stood by a very close friend of mine while she made the painful decision. And until you’ve seen someone crucify theirself over this decision, I don’t think it’s one of those things people can easily grasp.

  I KNOW my friend didn’t want to. I know she had the alternative of adoption, but the risk of something being terribly wrong with the child was far too great.

  I’ll never forget the day I went with her - walking by protesters who were there in the name of a peaceful God. I realized then what my position would ALWAYS be.

  In all honesty, the harder some Christians push their beliefs down my throat, the less likely I am to want to attend church, ever.

  I have to wonder just how many will have to be answering for those they turned away in the end?

  Sorry - got a little off track there - just had a recent bout with another extreme holy roller in my family and what they do is SO wrong! In my opinion anyway.

• Tracee
  Mar 12, 2008 at 2:44 pm

  check spam.

  I looked it up and Texas does have this program. However, there is no clinic within an hour of me and no public transportation at all.

  If women have access to their own family doctor they are going to be more empowered over their reproductive health, which will reduce the abortion rate.

• Ashley
  Mar 12, 2008 at 2:48 pm

  Very true. My experience with the health clinic was kind of grueling compared to when I could actually see MY doctor. I always dreaded it - although I really appreciated the service, it seemed very impersonal, awkward, and took a really, really long time. I can see why some women would just avoid it altogether.

• Thrifty Karen
  Mar 12, 2008 at 2:57 pm

  Gayla: I agree that Christians have gone about this the wrong way. I’ve been a Christian for a long, long time, but it has taken me up until now to see the harm that has been done. Maybe I’m maturing, maybe I’m growing a little wiser, I don’t know, but using a bullhorn to get your message across isn’t helpful. That’s not the way Jesus did it. He fellowshipped with the sinners. He showed them grace and compassion. I’m working on that.

  Tracee, back to the gay issue . . . I don’t know of ANY Christians that hate gays. Once again, they’re probably misunderstood because they think that using their bullhorn is the best tactic.

• Thrifty Karen
  Mar 12, 2008 at 2:58 pm

  P.S. Congrats to everyone for having an adult conversation without hostility. I hope this discussion continues that way. (No bullhorns are needed from either side. lol)

• Thrifty Karen
  Mar 12, 2008 at 3:11 pm

  Tracee, I just remembered something. A few years ago I found out that there is family planning medicaid available. It’s only available for contraceptives and preventing pregnancy. Of course you have to apply to get it. I think that people aren’t aware that these things exist. Perhaps you could do some research and present some resources for women. I know it might be tough since they’re not advertised, but I think it would be a valuable resource. Pregnancy centers also offer free pregnancy tests and free counseling. Some of them also help to provide bedding and clothes and free sonograms.

• Gayla McCord
  Mar 12, 2008 at 3:12 pm

  It is nice to be able to have a nice conversation on what’s normally a heated topic. This is the way it should be.

  Nothing excites me more then a nice, healthy and respectful debate. :)

  Same here Karen on growing and maturing in my faith. I believe in leading by example. If I am a happy, healthy and successful Christian that credits God for what I have, people will recognize that in me. I don’t have to force it down their throats. But by golly if they want to talk about it with me, I can talk all day long on the miracles I’ve seen.

• Violet
  Mar 12, 2008 at 3:13 pm

  I’ve never understood why people who are against abortion are the same ones who are against giving women the best tools to prevent abortion.

• Domestic Divapalooza
  Mar 12, 2008 at 4:08 pm

  Here’s the other thing I never could understand about Christianity and having faith in God for those that do believe..

  If you’ve read your Bible or gone to church you may have picked up the parts about how God doesn’t force us to believe in Him, right?

  You may know that he doesn’t shove himself down our throats. He’s always given us choices. We actually get to pick if we want to believe in Him or not.

  Everything in life is a choice that we are all entitled to have. Nobody has the right to take away my choices OR anybody else’s for that matter.

  One might argue and say, well who is going to stand up for the unborn child? (and I won’t get into the argument of when is a pregnancy a full fledged pregnancy)

  The way that I see it, the unborn child already has their place in heaven should that choice be made to terminate the pregnancy. I feel badly about that BUT it’s not for me to decide.

  Somebody mentioned “republicans” in here somewhere and I’m not even sure why but since it was mentioned, I will say that I think it’s silly that people will vote strictly on the abortion issue setting all other issues aside.

  I too don’t understand how so many believers out there are against abortion and in the same breath they are against human beings being able to decide how they can prevent pregnancy as well as sexually transmitted diseases for that matter.

  People have a right to protect themselves, to plan for a baby, to have sex without feeling obligated to procreate as a result of having sex, oh I could go on and on.

  Bottom line is that I personally have been on both sides of the issue and I do my best not to interject my faith OR my feelings onto somebody else’s right to choose. I will let you know how I feel but I won’t judge you if you don’t agree with me.

  I believe it’s possible to be pro-life and pro-choice all in the same breath. After all, God spared his Son so that we might live, right? It’s not the same thing but the concepts are there.. if you really stop and think deeply about it.

• kellys
  Mar 12, 2008 at 5:18 pm

  I am a little late to the party but my 2 cents is this… I, too, have seen the dilemma first hand through friends and think that in some cases, not all, but in some, the abortion would never have taken place if it would have been harder to access. It is an extremely easy option where I live and I don’t think that is how it should be. There should be better education once you get into the door. If a woman decides to continue once she has heard the heart beat and has heard of such wonderful adoption stories, then it is her choice. But I think that just because you walk in, doesn’t mean you have made up your mind.

  I don’t have the answer as to what should be done about the back room procedures if Roe V Wade was overturned but I would like to see the procedure not so readily available and easy to teenagers. I think parental notification should be the norm. I also think that the child should be able to choose the parent since incest would complicate parental notification! We need to realize that there are always 2 sides to every story. I am just so sad that it is so easy to get.

  And BTW, I am totally not pro- choice!

• kellys
  Mar 12, 2008 at 5:29 pm

  As far as the whole gay vs Christian conversation, I love that one too! I have been a Christian since I was little but my faith has become stronger as I get older. I have had the whole gay conversation with my sister, since she has chosen that lifestyle a few years ago. I think the best way a Christian should look at it is to remember that we all sin. I do, Karen does, everyone does. Whose to say that one sin is worse than another. Any sin keeps us from a full and right relationship with God. So why should my sister be any bigger of a sinner than I am. I do think, though, that the standard for centuries has been a man and a woman - both biblically and socially. You can look at the stats for families falling apart once the “standard” began to change. There are all kinds of reasons why gay marriage shouldn’t happen. But then again, I shouldn’t envy either and I envy anyone who can walk without pain on a daily basis. So who is more wrong? My sister or me? I find both sins to keep us from being right with God. The only difference is that I know and recognize that my sin hurts God and she hasn’t gotten there yet. Hopefully she will. But either way, we are both sinners who choose to handle our sin differently. No bull horns needed. Just a lot of love and forgiveness. I have yet to meet anyone who could walk on water that lives in my generation. Have you?

• Gayla McCord
  Mar 12, 2008 at 6:56 pm

  One thing some people fail to realize is that while an abortion MAY be easy to obtain in some places, it’s not ‘easy’ on the person who has made the choice. There are many people who are placed in such a position for any number of reasons.

  I know if I had ever found myself in such a position, carrying a child to term and opting for adoption would have gotten me disowned from my family and shunned in a way very similar to the Amish way.

  I think many girls find themselves in that position and feel they have no choice. They can’t run away for 9 months, give birth and return to their normal life and job - and they can’t face their family and friends - would pro-choice people prefer the woman commit suicide because in the case I witnessed, that was her second choice?

• Gayla McCord
  Mar 12, 2008 at 7:06 pm

  The thing about Roe v Wade is even IF it were to be overturned on the federal level that would only place it back into the hands of the states. If a person wants one, they can drive three states or more away to get one.

  It’s not a deal that’s going to go away.

• Tracee
  Mar 12, 2008 at 7:06 pm

  I agree Kellys - With a 50% divorce rate I would think straight Christians could spend their time better focusing on their own marriages (gays aren’t harming straight marriage - married people are.

• Tracee
  Mar 12, 2008 at 7:12 pm

  Violet, I suspect for many it’s not as much about the baby as they say. Or about compassion.

  Why compassion only for the baby and not the woman? I never get that part.

  I suspect, for many, it’s about being penalizing women for having sex.

• Ashley
  Mar 13, 2008 at 7:00 am

  It seems like the point of it all from boths sides should be ‘how do we avoid an abortion situation altogether?’, and not it’s right or wrong or make them harder to obtain. How can we help fewer happen each year?

• Tracee
  Mar 13, 2008 at 11:01 am

  I think healthcare is that solution Ashley.

  We want to reduce the number of abortions without criminalizing women.

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• Jen
  Mar 26, 2008 at 11:39 pm

  As someone already said, overturning Roe Vs Wade would do nothing to some states that allowed for abortions prior to the decision. I personally am pro-choice. I could never have an abortion but I don’t feel I should stop someone from making that choice or chose to keep it or chose to give it up.

  I rather like this idea and its one of the best “pro-life” arguments I’ve heard. I cannot afford a child right now (so I do make the choice not that its hard when one isn’t dating to not get myself in that position) as I do not have health care at all. Its sad when this country touts itself to be so fantastic yet we can’t get a lot of people basic health care because they make a dollar above a certain line.

  I had a Public Policy class last spring and we read about women who continually got pregnant and lost their babies due to poor or no health care (of course this is the question as to why people that poor kept getting pregnant which I mentioned on my final but that’s a whole other debate).

  Personally, I feel people get too involved in other peoples lives and we need to start butting out when it comes to many things. But that’s just me.

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• megan
  Apr 22, 2008 at 6:36 pm

  I’ve been talking about this for a while, so I’m glad to see it being put out there more. I am actually going to be dedicating a semester to a scholarly work on this topic. The problem with the “choice paradigm” is that it is really just a school-yard brawl trying to deal with the symptoms of the problem. The real problem, low access to health care, sexual health education, low welfare and insurance accessibility, not to mention personal relationships that condemn pregancies and shame a mother if she becomes pregnant out of wedlock. There are many issues that need to be addressed, and I think everyone on both sides of the choice paradigm would agree they need to be covered in some way or another and we can work together to achieve them, but instead we keep bickering about a woman’s “right” vs a fetuses “right”. That really doesn’t have to be the debate. Essentially, when we get better access to birth control, health care, adoption options, and comprehensive sex education in schools and communities, we will start to see a change in the number of unwanted pregnancies as well as a change in logic as to what an “unwanted” pregnancy actually is. As said before, most pregnancies are unwanted and aborted because of lack of funds or wanting to continue a certain lifestyle (student, single parent, professional) which a child might impede on. Well what if we didn’t have to give up a good education, single status, and a dream career due to pregnancy? Can’t we have both? This is something not given space to and light to in the choice paradigm. With better welfare reform and better access to health care and child care and support, such REAL choices will be possible. Lets focus on a woman’s REAL choice of adoption, birth control, sexuality, etc and not forcing her to choose between her life and her child’s. If people find themselves drawn to such a nuanced political position, check out Feminists For Life as well as Andrea Smith’s chapter “better dead than pregnant” in her book Conquest which you can read online if you search google scholar. I’m a pro-choice, pro-life feminist who believes in women’s real choice to control her own life, not the life of her child, without that hurting her socially, economically, and politically.

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• kelsy
  May 18, 2008 at 12:37 pm

  I dont believe in abortion its like your killing a baby. Only people with no heart can do that. Your murdering and innocent victim because of your dumb decisions. Studies show that babies do feel pain. Now tell me that aint Murder!

• Tracee Sioux
  May 19, 2008 at 4:55 am

  Kelsy - no one believes in abortion.

  The point is that overturning Roe V. Wade doesn’t prevent abortion while, I believe, providing access to contraception and empowering women over their health would.

  The idea is not to condone abortion. The idea is to take a realistic approach to reducing the numbers.

• Natalie
  May 25, 2008 at 6:55 pm

  THIS HAS TO STOP!!

  BABIES ARE BEING TORTURED BY THEIR SELFISH, UNKNOWLEDGEABLE MOTHERS!!

  MOTHERS SHOULD BE INFORMED BEFORE ALLOWING THIS TO BE DONE TO THEIR UNBORN CHILD AND MIND SET TO LONG TERM REGRET AND DEVASTATION!

  WHY? WHY? WHY!?

  THEIR ARE MANY OTHER OPTIONS OUT THERE!

  SAVE THE $300 AND GIVE A LIFE!

  MOTHER’S THEMSELVES WERE ENTITLED TO LIFE, WHY NOT THEIR UN BORN CHILD?

  MOTHERS WHO DECIDE TO HAVE AN ABORTION ILLEGALLY SHOULD BE PENALIZED FOR MURDERING THEIR CHILD. IT SHOULD HAVE LONG BEEN THOUGHT ABOUT BEFORE ENGAGING IN SOME PHYSICAL FUN.

  DIDN’T THINK ABOUT IT? DIDN’T KNOW WHAT THE CONSEQUENCES WOULD BE? TOO BAD!

  DEAL WITH IT!!! IT’S PART OF LIFE! WHY GIVE UP AN INNOCENT CHILD OPPORTUNITY BECAUSE OF IRRESPONSIBILITY!

• Tracee Sioux
  May 26, 2008 at 7:15 am

  Vote for healthcare and take a responsible part in preventing conception Natalie.

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